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  1. #2872
    Senior Member
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    Hessen Bub
    Yep. It is ONLY GT, and AFAIK GT is not consistent in turning away a special ethnic group of male guests.

    HB.

  2. #2871
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCane  [View Original Post]
    And the NRW region comprises a substantial part of the FKK scene in Germany! As I have said before, the only club I have ever felt uncomfortable at in Germany was Golden Time, which is in the NRW. And I would add that's been the only place in the world where I have been at in the last ten years where I have felt like that! Sad but 100% true.
    Well I only knew of GT. So really it should be "NRW club", not plural. I think I have seen Turks at every other club. I also met the Indian regular at GT that PussyLicker speaks of. That guy is Dutch and speaks German as well. So they let you in to GT, but made you feel uncomfortable once you were inside? Was it other customers? The staff? Or the girls?

  3. #2870
    Please tell us what went up(or down) when you were there in the GT thread. I didn't even know you were at GT. Don't recall seeing your report of GT. Been with couple Turkish girls at GT. I been with one really hot Turkish girl at GT, and service was not so good. Sheyanne is a pretty Turkish girl with the big naturals and nice booty, very down to earth and provide good service when she started.

  4. #2869

    My 4th FKK visit

    Day by day I read FKK thread and I am being seduced. At the end found myself planning a 4th trip to Germany.

    I am planning to go FRA and I will have wheels. My trip will be at least 4-7 days.

    I am just curious FRA clubs got over the summer effect or will they got over in Early September maybe on 8th to 15.

    Is there any big event or messe at this time period that can affect the quality of my trip?

    I think I will make 3 or 4 visits and it can be Oase-Sharks-World or Oase-Sharks-GT or Oase-SharksSamya--GT.

    I think driving your car between FRA to Cologne is a real pleasure..

    Your comments will be appreciated.

    And also I didn't know there is a anti-turkish policy in NRW or FRA I was in NRW 6 months ago and Owners of Samya are Turks. Some bodyguards in Oase was Turkish guys and was very helpful. Also I easily entered GT with a suit and all people was so friendly.

    I don't know maybe it depends on which turk you are or which Chinese or which american. Just my opinion. Maybe they are not so much interested in your nationality.

    Strangely my worst sessions were with Turkish girls always in GT or in Artemis and in other places. Very strange huh.

  5. #2868
    "German girls don't discriminate, they give everybody bad services. " -- LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by PussyLiccker  [View Original Post]
    Germany is a bit different from Japan and Korea since the working girls are from outside Germany. But, yes German girls are open minded compared to Japanese and Korean pay businesses. German girls don't discriminate, they give everybody bad services.

    The Cane, it's sad to hear your experience at GT wasn't as great as other clubs. The club is mostly Dutch and yes, the door policy is quite tight to people they wish to shut out. I don't fully know the motivations behind their door policy, but it's a crowded club and their sister club not quite as popular has a more open door polity. I believe you were let in, and I've seen Caucasians not let in. I've seen a dark skinned Indian gentleman there that's been going there for a long time. The door policy is indeed confusing. Maybe you can give the place another try.

    I hear new recent management.

  6. #2867
    Germany is a bit different from Japan and Korea since the working girls are from outside Germany. But, yes German girls are open minded compared to Japanese and Korean pay businesses. German girls don't discriminate, they give everybody bad services.

    The Cane, it's sad to hear your experience at GT wasn't as great as other clubs. The club is mostly Dutch and yes, the door policy is quite tight to people they wish to shut out. I don't fully know the motivations behind their door policy, but it's a crowded club and their sister club not quite as popular has a more open door polity. I believe you were let in, and I've seen Caucasians not let in. I've seen a dark skinned Indian gentleman there that's been going there for a long time. The door policy is indeed confusing. Maybe you can give the place another try.

    I hear new recent management.

  7. #2866
    Quote Originally Posted by McAdonis  [View Original Post]
    In Germany, there isn't really such a thing. Except maybe the Anti-Turkish, anti-dark skin policy in NRW.
    And the NRW region comprises a substantial part of the FKK scene in Germany! As I have said before, the only club I have ever felt uncomfortable at in Germany was Golden Time, which is in the NRW. And I would add that's been the only place in the world where I have been at in the last ten years where I have felt like that! Sad but 100% true.

  8. #2865
    It could be a misunderstanding. Did they call you names? Hostile to me would be like "Go back to f* China!

    Some people are ignorant and have zero social skills. They can't read signals and body language. They laugh at their own jokes, not realizing others are not laughing with them. They may not realize that pulling their eyes back, making mock martial arts and Chinese sounds was offensive to you.

    Secondly, it doesn't sound like you speak German. Many people live in Germany and speak German, but they could be from other parts of Europe. Third, mocking languages is common. Most Europeans make mock German sounds. They are not necessarily hostile towards Germans. They just think German is an ugly language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3hLLwOhs6c.

    Not saying there aren't German racists out there. But generally they are not overt. They are polite and probably would say it when you are not around. I believe Germans probably some guilt around the Holocaust. So any Germans who are racist or anti-semitic will be ostracized if they outwardly express their feelings.

    Lastly, as others have pointed out. In other parts of the world like Japan, foreigners aren't allowed into certain sex establishments. In Germany, there isn't really such a thing. Except maybe the Anti-Turkish, anti-dark skin policy in NRW.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoloTraveler  [View Original Post]
    I am not trying to create a controversy or offend German people here.

    I am asking this question sincerely.

    Do some kind of anti-Chinese thoughts prevail in the German society right now?

    I heard that some people in Western Europe don't like China and even hold a hostile attitude toward it.

    I don't know why.

    I guess it has something to do with China's economy policy, which makes Western European labors feel threatened?

    Or maybe it has something to do with the Chinese immigrants in Western Europe?

    I am not sure. I don't live in Germany or Western Europe.

    So, I hope someone can tell me the truth and real situation in German society right now.

    I remembered that when the USA Decided to launch wars in the Middle East, some kind of anti-American / anti-USA Thoughts started to prevail over Western Europe.

    Even the mainstream media helped the anti-USA Thoughts prevail.

    So, if some anti-Chinese thoughts starts to prevail over Western Europe, it's going to be as horrible and unimaginable.

    I am not a Chinese, but I am always mistaken as one, when I am in Western Europe.

    Strangely, people in Western Europe can accept the idea that a person of African descent or Southern Asian decent may be an European or an American (if he was born and grew up in Europe or America), but when they see a person of East Asian descent, they automatically assume he is a Chinese from China.

    I also want to know why this is happening.

    Thanks

  9. #2864

    About the German society

    I am not trying to create a controversy or offend German people here.

    I am asking this question sincerely.

    Do some kind of anti-Chinese thoughts prevail in the German society right now?

    I heard that some people in Western Europe don't like China and even hold a hostile attitude toward it.

    I don't know why.

    I guess it has something to do with China's economy policy, which makes Western European labors feel threatened?

    Or maybe it has something to do with the Chinese immigrants in Western Europe?

    I am not sure. I don't live in Germany or Western Europe.

    So, I hope someone can tell me the truth and real situation in German society right now.

    I remembered that when the USA Decided to launch wars in the Middle East, some kind of anti-American / anti-USA Thoughts started to prevail over Western Europe.

    Even the mainstream media helped the anti-USA Thoughts prevail.

    So, if some anti-Chinese thoughts starts to prevail over Western Europe, it's going to be as horrible and unimaginable.

    I am not a Chinese, but I am always mistaken as one, when I am in Western Europe.

    Strangely, people in Western Europe can accept the idea that a person of African descent or Southern Asian decent may be an European or an American (if he was born and grew up in Europe or America), but when they see a person of East Asian descent, they automatically assume he is a Chinese from China.

    I also want to know why this is happening.

    Thanks

  10. #2863
    Oh no I better not purchase anything in Europe be. See some part of it might have been handled by a broke ass Eastern European who's country is inexplicably part of the EU.

  11. #2862
    Quote Originally Posted by HessenBub  [View Original Post]
    To say that trafficking is a feminist hoax and conspiracy is false and a punch in the face for trafficked girls in Germany. How do you define trafficking? Is a girl trafficked who is threatened by a guy to do her or her family harm if she doesn't bring him a certain amount of money per week? Even if he doesn't physically hit or abuse her? I've seen enough of that in Germany.

    http://www.bka.de/nn_194550/EN/SubjectsAZ/TraffickingInHumanBeings/traffickingInHumanBeings__node.html?__nnn=true

    The age of consent in Germany may be 14, but you have to be 18 if you want to work as a prostitute. For girls under 21 criteria for trafficking are stricter than for girls over 21. You should stay with the facts and not post some obscure links and data not relevant for the discussion (age if consent of 14).

    HB.
    Thank you for posting this link HB. I finally found the time to read this report in its entirety.

    It makes for a very interesting read. It includes lots of statistics regarding nationalities of the perpetrators, nationalities of the victims, percent of cases where violence, threats of violence, or deceit was used to induce the victims into prostitution. And surely, these statistics far under-report the actual statistics, because of course, many of these crimes are never reported.

    I admit that I haven't spent as much time with working girls as many of senior members who actually live in Germany. But I have been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time with some of the girls outside the clubs, including some girls who had quit the business. Most of the girls I know seem to be their own agents. But, I do know some girls who were brought to Germany on false pretenses and who were induced into prostitution under threats of violence to them and to their families. It does happen. And certainly the younger girls are more susceptible to these inducements. These girls don't really have a good reason to lie to me because they are no longer working in the business and I am not paying them when I visit them.

    Even the girls I know without "managers" who no longer work in the business are always telling me plenty of stories about other girls we knew before and how prevalent pimps are in this business. So, while I'm sure I'll never know the actual percentage of girls with "managers," I am convinced by my interactions with the girls that it would be folly to suggest that the percentage of girls without "managers" is an insignificant fraction.

  12. #2861
    This link appears to recite the national German legislation in English regarding human trafficking:

    http://www.protectionproject.org/wp-...09/GERMANY.pdf

    Also shows up here if you scroll down to Section 232 and following sections: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/en...isch_stgb.html.

  13. #2860
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeDude  [View Original Post]
    Well for one thing: it's the only legally binding international instrument. But whatever, here's a link to a wiki site of all things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking.

    For all intense and purposes THE relevant definition worldwide. If you think it 's irrelevant, go ahead. I'm not going to spend much more time "discussing" this.
    Thank you for filling in the gaps. It looks like this definition is part of a UN Protocol (treaty) that has been in fact been ratified by 161 countries as you pointed out. It also looks like this UN Protocol obligates each ratifying party to implement national legislation in support of enforcing this protocol on a local level.

    Still, a prosecutor in German will not look to this UN protocol when prosecuting an individual in Germany. They will look to the specific words of the national implementing legislation which will likely differ in many respects to the wording of this UN protocol. Indeed, looking to the law that HB posted, the contours and requirements of that law do in fact differ in quite substantial ways from this UN protocol. In any case, it doesn't make sense to look at the definition of Human Trafficking in the UN protocol for determining what someone may be prosecuted in Germany for. Instead, you have to look at the actual German law. Unless you manage to show that the two texts are identical. So far, I am not convinced of that.

    But I'm glad you followed up with these additional links. Very informative. Thank you for sharing your research with all of us.

  14. #2859
    Senior Member
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    3,913



    Hessen Bub
    Quote Originally Posted by MrManGuy  [View Original Post]
    Europeans sooooo full of shit. As if the German politicians don't go to FKK.
    I don't agree with FD. The sentence ends with "for the purpose of exploitation". Which is not my purpose when driving her and maybe (maybe) getting some compensation.

    HB.

  15. #2858
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeDude  [View Original Post]
    I used the official UN definition that 160 countries (including Germany) subscribe too. I'm afraid my German isn't good enough to grasp the detail that is clearly needed to understand these definitions.

    If you look at the English definition (notice the many times they use "or"): "transporting or harbouring a person, that is in a vulnarable postition, for the purpose of exploitation" is traficking. This last word is only defined to include sexual exploitation, but not when your are deemed to exploit someone. Notice how "forced" is omitted when they discuss "sexual exploitation" compared to other forms of exploitation and how subsection be denotes how consent of the "victim" is irrelevant.

    In other words if you receive payment from a girl for transporting her, and she can be described as being in a vulnarable position (ie poor) and working in the sex industry. The only debate in court would be whether the payment falls under the undefined term "exploitation". And honestly, if you are really meta about it, you can say anyone who has a business exploits the lack of skill that some people have (say a plumber).

    Luckily most districts of attorney have better things to do than to go after cabdrivers, but this is the definition that also leads to the skewed numbers that are reported everywhere. If they would just stick to "force" being necessary for it being called trafficking (like in any other industry), things would be far more workable.

    P.S. I know girls that would officially be called trafficked, and every time I see them they show me pictures of how the build of they're house is progressing and their latest car that the boyfriend drives in (pick up, drop off). Kids are planned for next year. These are of course just examples, but the way the authorities look at it: trafficking, and that makes the whole debate useless.
    Europeans sooooo full of shit. As if the German politicians don't go to FKK.

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