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  1. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiandihui  [View Original Post]
    I not really agree on this mate. In fact for service first and pay later policy are only the minor group of customers who demanded it.

    Many or most places only do payment first and service comes. Though there are some option for service first and pay (BJ shop, small massage joints).

    Thailand not has always been pay after sex. This only applies to the Freelance from disco or street walkers. Not just for farang, to all nationalities. Its all to the self neg.
    Can't speak for "not has always" or for the Thai Escort scene specifically, but 20-25 years ago when I mongered in Thailand and the Philippines (mostly Angeles City) several weeks per year, one major difference between Thailand's P4P scene in both Bangkok and Pattaya vs Angeles City in the Philippines was that Thailand was PAY-AFTER (so was Manila) while Angeles City was PAY-BEFORE. The internet message boards raged incessantly over the difference. Mongers to both destinations argued about which was a better system for delivery of services; Thailand's (and Manila's) PAY-AFTER system or Angeles City's PAY-BEFORE system. I assure you of that because I was always on the PAY-AFTER side of those pervasive and heated discussions.

    And in the past 5+ years I have lived and mongered in Bangkok/Pattaya, Thailand, PAY-AFTER is still the dominant system for go-go bars (talking about the girl's money, not talking about the barfine paid to the bar), beer bars, BJ Bars, Massage Shops and Freelancers. The only exceptions to most of those is when the mamasan or provider thinks she can pull a fast one on an unsuspecting or inexperienced monger and get him to PAY-BEFORE and therefore accept whatever crappy service the girl delivers afterwards having already fully paid up as though she had done a really fine job of it.

    Again, can't speak for the Escort scene on that count. And I'm not talking about the big fishbowl operations, where I also have limited (and less than worthwhile) experience. But even in Angeles City, the Philippines, where I did on occasion partake of a hotel delivery escort and in an environment where almost everything was that lame "all-inclusive/PAY-BEFORE" nonsense, I usually paid the escort after and the escort seemed to accept that as the norm. But I suspect that was because the few hotel delivery escorts I had were all from Manila anyway, had worked there previously and found themselves working in Angeles City only for family reasons.

  2. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodilexp  [View Original Post]
    No, that is only routine in any markets where escorts have the upper hand and the customer has limited options. Thailand has always been a pay-after-sex sort of place, at least in the Farang-oriented scene, with very few exceptions (such as soapy massage parlors and low-end brothels).

    I can't remember the last time I had a good experience after paying in advance. Acceptable, maybe, good, usually not.
    I not really agree on this mate. In fact for service first and pay later policy are only the minor group of customers who demanded it.

    Many or most places only do payment first and service comes. Though there are some option for service first and pay (BJ shop, small massage joints).

    Thailand not has always been pay after sex. This only applies to the Freelance from disco or street walkers. Not just for farang, to all nationalities. Its all to the self neg.

    Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Shanghai, Europe, States, Canada etc. Most online escorts require the $$Gift) to be presented before the session starts. Be it by hand or leave on the table for her to see.

    Whether a not for paying after the service are all from the self demand and neg with the escorts or the agency directly.

    Upfront listing or their ads are all payment before session starts.

    Can't expect one's demand to over rule the fundamental policies of the market.

    Nothing to do with who has the upper hand or limited option or not.

  3. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodilexp  [View Original Post]
    No, that is only routine in any markets where escorts have the upper hand and the customer has limited options. Thailand has always been a pay-after-sex sort of place, at least in the Farang-oriented scene, with very few exceptions (such as soapy massage parlors and low-end brothels).

    I can't remember the last time I had a good experience after paying in advance. Acceptable, maybe, good, usually not.
    Yea I agree, that would be like going to MacDonalds asking for a double cheese burger and only getting a ham burger then them telling you you can't have a refund. Screw that eh!

  4. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Franciscass  [View Original Post]
    I understand escorts for obvious reasons asking for payment within 10 minutes. This is routine in most developed markets.
    No, that is only routine in any markets where escorts have the upper hand and the customer has limited options. Thailand has always been a pay-after-sex sort of place, at least in the Farang-oriented scene, with very few exceptions (such as soapy massage parlors and low-end brothels).

    I can't remember the last time I had a good experience after paying in advance. Acceptable, maybe, good, usually not.

  5. #627

    Cancellation policies

    We don't enforce any specific cancellation policy. Ultimately we are trying to work as a next generation directory, helping the client and the companion to create an agreement of terms and services before both parties confirm the booking.

    There were some initial issues regarding cancellations and payment options, so to attempt to solve this we now give the companions / agencies a blank text spaces to write any cancellation policies and payment options, with the information visible on the companions profile.

    We have also added default text in these spaces to help the companions, as the first indepedents didn't understand what to put, but this text is editable.

  6. #626

    My Two Cents.

    Smooci have a stated policy of not allowing escorts advertise BBFS which may also include customers requesting it. Need to wait and see their response.

    I understand escorts for obvious reasons asking for payment within 10 minutes. This is routine in most developed markets.

    The 10 minutes should be used for both parties to decide whether they want to continue during which time the customer confirms what he has specifically requested and expects is acceptable.

    IMHO the so called cancellation fee should depend on the circumstances. If she looks nothing like her advertised profile vis a vis her age and appearance I would say no thank you, bye and close the door. If there was a genuine misunderstanding of some sort then I would explain say sorry and give 1 k.

  7. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Dante702  [View Original Post]
    Coming down in the next week.

    I don't see a private messaging system on Smooci before you actually book the girl and so I expect all further negotiations take place in person? I'm interested in securing bareback encounters, BBBJ / BBFS, CIM and CIP.

    When going through Smooci in Bangkok, anyone have experiences securing / failing to secure this? I've done enough mongering to just be done with condoms and don't mind doing the extra leg work or paying more for bareback.

    I can bring clean test results from the US if that matters to the local girls.

    Any input would be appreciated.
    I am with you on most of that. In my case, I have had a vasectomy to be safer from unwanted pregnancy as well. And I am circumcised, although I never bother to mention that upfront since it is too complicated to explain why that is an added precaution against disease.

    Of course, many of the girls on Smooci state they provide CIM, so that part shouldn't be difficult to filter out for. I see there is a Special Request box on the first page of the booking process. Why not state your BBFS request there along with whatever conditions relate like the clean test results and the extra payment proposal and see what happens? Smooci says they don't allow the companions to advertise unprotected full sex and don't encourage it. But that doesn't mean it isn't done between the companions and the customers, especially since they are now listing Independents/Freelancers in their service.

    I think the move would be NOT to "ask" if the girl is ok with BBFS as long as you can show her a clean test result, pay extra or whatever in that Special Request box. I think the move is to simply request it with those conditions included. I have no idea who or how many people read that Special Request box other than the companion herself, if that. But I would not put her in a position of having to give a written "Yes" response to such a request at that point. I would just state what I want and what I have done and am prepared to do to get it. Then, if the girl accepts the booking and shows up you have every reason to assume a negotiation for BBFS is very much on the table rather than assume she would put up some dramatic show of shock about it.

    I have not read that Smooci now charges a cancellation fee for their regular companions. Do they? If not, then a girl showing up after having been told what you want in the Special Request box but who then adamantly refuses to provide what you requested under any circumstances ought to know that a cancellation even after arriving is a distinct probability.

    Speaking of Independents/Freelancers and cancellation fees, I notice Smooci's freelancers routinely state full payment must be made upfront, within "10 minutes of arrival" and that there is a 1,000-1,500 baht cancellation fee for them. Which is hilarious since 1,000-1,500 baht is an amount of money one might easily pay a Bkk freelancer after she fully delivered a 60-90 minute Short Time, often including BBFS or BBBJ+CIM+Swallow with a smile, in the first place. How is that cancellation fee handled? Is it taken out of your credit card or handed to the girl in person after you discover she is 10 kilos heavier and 15 years older than indicated in her profile and photos? LOL.

  8. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Dante702  [View Original Post]
    Coming down in the next week.

    I don't see a private messaging system on Smooci before you actually book the girl and so I expect all further negotiations take place in person? I'm interested in securing bareback encounters, BBBJ / BBFS, CIM and CIP.

    When going through Smooci in Bangkok, anyone have experiences securing / failing to secure this? I've done enough mongering to just be done with condoms and don't mind doing the extra leg work or paying more for bareback.

    I can bring clean test results from the US if that matters to the local girls.

    Any input would be appreciated.
    Quote from Smooci's previous post: "Regarding unprotected sex; Smooci doesn't allow companions to advertise unprotected full sex and doesn't encourage it. This is something we will not change our stance on".

  9. #623

    Bareback Experiences / Negotiating.

    Coming down in the next week.

    I don't see a private messaging system on Smooci before you actually book the girl and so I expect all further negotiations take place in person? I'm interested in securing bareback encounters, BBBJ / BBFS, CIM and CIP.

    When going through Smooci in Bangkok, anyone have experiences securing / failing to secure this? I've done enough mongering to just be done with condoms and don't mind doing the extra leg work or paying more for bareback.

    I can bring clean test results from the US if that matters to the local girls.

    Any input would be appreciated.

  10. #622

    Interesting thread.

    My favorite thread at the moment, partly because of the interesting conversation between ET and Dan on the similarities or lack thereof between P4P and porn which incidentally Dan I have to admit ET at least IMHO is winning.

    Smooci is a good platform for booking escorts. I cannot believe they are out to cause unnecessary problems for customers and seem to be more than open to taking on legitimate concerns while helping the girls avoid unpleasant situations and in case you're wondering no I have no skin in the game.

    Useless post, I know.

  11. #621
    Great to see that the concerns are being addressed and fixed.

    Why the full name as an option when it's not necessary though? Would be better to go out of your way as a company / app to protect the customer's privacy, for their own good.

  12. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by EihTooms  [View Original Post]
    I like stop and go just fine. What I meant was what you are seeing in a porn video has often been hobbled together with only the highlights left in but the lulls and wait times between set ups edited out. He is not the "customer" being serviced by her. She has not been hired to give him the best sexual experience she can deliver, only to behave in such a way that it "looks" like that is what she has delivered. ....
    I think it's important to remember that porn isn't just sex for show. It's sex for show to a male audience.

    It usually starts out with the hot lady strip-teasing you with her pussy, tits, and ass. She drives you into a frenzy of lust. And then she gets a guy or several guys to do her hard-and-fast in the way guys in the audience want to see her done.

    She is having sex totally for the guys. And that's why it looks so good to all the guys watching her. And of course, she isn't doing it all by herself. She gets her guy or guys to nail her just the way guys in the audience want to see her done.

    "So, how does the lady know what guys in the audience want to see?" You might ask.

    And of course, the lady doesn't know. She relies on her guy to nail her just the way other guys want to see her done. Guys have a lot in common with each other. And that's why the lady needs to rely on her banging guy to imagine what the male audience wants to see and do her exactly this way.

    From what I've read about making porn, the porn stars, porn studs, and the film director usually get together and plan their sex-scene. But it always ends being what the guys want to see, because they are doing it for a male audience. And they don't necessarily plan out every detail. The details are often left for the banging guy to decide in the heat of the moment.

    And of course, the lady's banging guy can't read the minds of other guys. He can only fantasize about the lady from his own male point of view and assume that sex fantasies of other guys are probably like this too.

    So in effect, the guy banging the lady gets to fulfill his own sex fantasies with her. The only concession he makes to the audience is that he needs to exaggerate his sex acts, do them repeatedly in a variety of ways, and make it last for a long time too. Because guys in the audience might not see everything right away. And even if they see it, they still need time to watch and enjoy it.

    The guy banging the hot lady in porn gets to fulfill his most extreme fantasies for her. Because he just needs to say to the lady that other guys want to see her done this way. And she has no way of knowing if this is true or not. She needs to rely on his judgment and opinion. Because as a guy, he is in a better position to know what other guys want to see, than she is.

    P4P ladies don't usually watch porn made for guys. And that's why they often don't know how guys want to plow. But you can remedy the situation and provide the lady with some sex-education. You can load some GIF animation clips on your phone and quickly show them to the lady you like. This is a quick way to communicate to the hot chick how you want to do her with your dick.

    P4P ladies are also doing it for guys. And that's why they might want to learn from experienced ladies in porn.

  13. #619
    We are open to feedback and debate, but its' important to clear up the misinformation some people are posting here.

    When a client makes a booking, the information we require are the hotel name and room number, name on the room, email address, and a mobile phone number. The client only needs to give a first name, we do not require a surname in order to confirm the booking. While it is helpful to have a full name, if the client only puts a first name (which the vast majority of clients do), the booking still goes through and it is confirmed.

    We do not keep credit card details on file.

    For card payments of premium memberships, these payments are made through a secure third party company. This info is not stored on our system, we are informed that we have received a payment and given the email address and payment amount which is used to create the account.

    The only time we would be sent additional info is when a card payment is flagged a fraudulent and the payment company send us the full name on the card to check if it matches the details we have and this is very rare.

    Regarding client reviews, this isn't fully rolled out yet and we are listening to feedback from clients and companions. We started allowing companions to rate and comment on clients last month and at first we were just storing and reviewing that info. We allowed a small group of independents to receive this to test it and get their feedback.

    The feedback from the companions has been very positive; it helps them quickly confirm whether a client is genuine and helps cut out false bookings. We have also received mixed feedback from clients, with the main concerns over security.

    We have taken the feedback on board and we have stopped the companions receiving this info. However, we are still looking to find the best way to give the companions more information to accept bookings with confidence and ultimately show that a client is safe and genuine. This may now be using a simpler system which doesn't reveal the number of bookings and written details of past bookings, but involving a badge and flagging system.

    A quick response to the other comments mentioned:

    The GPS tracking works successfully in over 90% of cases. It does rely on the companion having an undisrupted network signal, so in cases when a companion loses, or has a poor network signal, the tracking will have errors.

    Companions are encouraged to be on time and to inform the client when they are running late. The Smooci system sends a reminder to the companion 1 hour before a booking, and if the companion hasn't already click o start her journey the system sends another reminder 30 minutes before, also warning them to inform the client if they are running late. The client is also given direct contact with the companion and / or agency.

    Regarding unprotected sex; Smooci doesn't allow companions to advertise unprotected full sex and doesn't encourage it. This is something we will not change our stance on.

  14. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodilexp  [View Original Post]
    Smooci is failing to understand that they're not Uber, Amazon or AirBnB, and that in their line of business, privacy of the customers is paramount.

    An online working girl booking service which keeps my credit card data and full name on file, along with a full history of what every hooker I slept with thought about me? Moreover, it gives access to real name and reviews to any random hooker that I might book? No, thanks.

    Even if Smooci was eager to guard customer privacy as much as possible (which obviously it isn't), simply storing it is a major problem. From security breeches, to changes of ownership, it is virtually guaranteed that such data will at one point leak, and be abused.

    Customers should be allowed to sign up under a pseudonym, and pay anonymously for premium services. Reviews of customers are a horrid idea, even when associated with a pseudonym, as it's way too easy to connect the dots to identity. This is a separate issue from a customer-service problem, with girls cherry-picking the "easiest" customers.

    Sex providers and customers are NOT equal sides (generally, sellers and buyers are not exactly equal either, but this is a special case). Girls working as prostitutes also deserve some privacy protections, but they inherently cannot retain full privacy, since they need to advertise to get and keep business (either post at minimum a picture online or work at a bar / street corner in the offline world).
    There are some really valid points here, enough to possibly convince me to stay off smooci. Yes, it is easy, convenient and a little cheaper but the expansion to storing credit card information, independent listings and client reviews really escalates the privacy and security risk. If anyone of you recognize me in the short time I've been on this forum will know that I've been an avid supporter of outcall escorts in Bangkok. Smooci is really making me reconsider. I don't know for sure but for now, gogo bgs, MP bgs and gees, even to a certain degree, Thermae indys are looking like the safer option.

    Smooci? I am asking with an open and receptive mind. What is your response to Croc's opinion? I am on the fence and want to know your side of the issue.

  15. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by EihTooms  [View Original Post]
    There are only a tiny handful of porn actresses who can finish a blowjob on camera where it actually looks like it would be a wonderful finish in real life, essentially finishing it orally and inside the mouth while still managing to "show" the video viewer that the man is cumming big time. Heather Brooke and Camille Crimson come to mind. Not many others. And they're both swallowers.
    And now we're all off to google Heather Brooke and Camille Crimson.

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