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Thread: Kiev

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  1. #18112
    If it was me I would avoid Kiev just not that good and if you do not have local contacts even worse.

    1. Moscow: my favorite.

    2. Tijuana.

    3. Germany.

    No experience in Asia not for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinny2000  [View Original Post]
    I went to Germany (FKK, oase, Sharks), Thailand, and Tijuana MX. Generally, my preference is FKK Thailand Tijuana. I like Germany because it is pretty safe and everything is in order. In particular, there are a lot of pretty girls (though most of them are from Romania, which I don't care).

    I also know many people like to go to Ukraine. I'm hesitant with it since I know neither Russian nor Ukrainian. But on the other hand, Ukr girls are very beautiful and it is a mysterious country.

    What will you choose between Germany FKK and Ukraine? Any comments?

    Thanks!

  2. #18111

    Inquiry: Germany FKK vs. Ukraine.

    I went to Germany (FKK, oase, Sharks), Thailand, and Tijuana MX. Generally, my preference is FKK Thailand Tijuana. I like Germany because it is pretty safe and everything is in order. In particular, there are a lot of pretty girls (though most of them are from Romania, which I don't care).

    I also know many people like to go to Ukraine. I'm hesitant with it since I know neither Russian nor Ukrainian. But on the other hand, Ukr girls are very beautiful and it is a mysterious country.

    What will you choose between Germany FKK and Ukraine? Any comments?

    Thanks!

  3. #18110
    Quote Originally Posted by Riina  [View Original Post]
    The experiences with the girls that decide to become entrepreneurial, but not really enter the sex trade. Girls come everyday from throughout Ukraine to Kiev with thoughts of performing services for strangers in exchange for cash. This is the best mongering possibility in Kiev and its cost is marginal. Can be found on the street, clubs, and pretty much anywhere. Can be had easily by those with an outgoing personality and lots of time. No deep wallet required.

    All commercial sex like Gia and Rio is second rate stuff in Kiev compared to what can be had by relationships and simple hunting. And this second rate sex costs multiple times more then first rate.
    Cannot agree more.

    That is why during last visit I called GIA only on day 17, while having tickets to rock concert and noone decent available at the moment. The girl was great. Not exactly cheap, but great.

    Days and Nights 1-16 were with well-known friends, their roommates, and new acquaintances.

    To help with acute "spermotoxicosis" I also dipped heavily into few agencies via Viber, but admittedly lowered expectations and decided to enjoy whoever they delivered (certainly within certain limitations). It was mostly acceptable, but that approach is not for everybody.

    Still there is no substitute for making friends with girl newly arrived from Western Ukraine, or any other locality for that matter. The more obscure, the better.

  4. #18109
    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoSlider  [View Original Post]
    Is it possible to quantify these better possibilities?
    The experiences with the girls that decide to become entrepreneurial, but not really enter the sex trade. Girls come everyday from throughout Ukraine to Kiev with thoughts of performing services for strangers in exchange for cash. This is the best mongering possibility in Kiev and its cost is marginal. Can be found on the street, clubs, and pretty much anywhere. Can be had easily by those with an outgoing personality and lots of time. No deep wallet required.

    All commercial sex like Gia and Rio is second rate stuff in Kiev compared to what can be had by relationships and simple hunting. And this second rate sex costs multiple times more then first rate.

  5. #18108
    Quote Originally Posted by Riina  [View Original Post]
    After all the above said, one could do Kiev on a very minimum budget like an urban hipster. But that requires a real commitment to Ukraine and you better have the spirit to get yourself out and create relationships. As long as you have the right attitude, you could reap the better mongering possibilities in Kiev with very little money.
    Is it possible to quantify these better possibilities? I think there are too many parameters, and too much diversity in the way visitors entertain themselves.

    On one hand, there are Coyle and Jymondor with GIA girls, and staying at AirBnB. I woould call them "middle class" or "upper middle class" There are also gentlemen staying at Fairmont and Hyatt at $500/ night, most likely employer pays. Those spend above $500/ day for very good entertainment. Most likely $700-1000/ day after all is total up, and that is typical for short term visit.

    On the other hand there is Kozerog with $130/ day over 90 days. That is probably the lowest decent budget approach where he is happy with consumption level and service quality. Anything cheaper would mean not as frequent as wanted or unacceptable level of providers.

    Is it possible to create Numbeo like database, collecting both: strictly mongering expenses and collateral?

    Mongering may follow structured format by Jymondor for most frequent categories.

    Collateral will collect average rent, food, transportation, haircuts, ballet tickets, visits to doctor, lawyers hourly rate, etc.

    Without the mongering numbeo reports cost of living in Kiev at 27% of London, UK. Is it the same for our hobby as well?

  6. #18107

    90 days in Kiev?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riina  [View Original Post]
    Just like I said, ridiculously expensive. Most readers of this forum have a job, we are not ever counting the cost of twelve work weeks lost. Even just 2-4 weeks in a fringe area of Kiev doesn't sound like fun to me.

    I'm very skeptical of guys saying they grinded their way through agencies. After my years of mongering experience, seems nobody does that and it just doesn't make economic sense. Reminds me of the guys who were supposedly hunting down gems on BP and then could never post a link to a girl.

    If an indie or agency/Mamba girl can't show you four photos, two face close ups and two set back to see her figure all in different settings, just forget it. Before meeting, try to talk to them on your cell. Waste of time to blindly call agencies to meet in front of a coffee shop without some kind of verification.

    What's the chance of an agency with a financial interest to send out any old hog to your place actually delivering something good? Probably about zero these days if I can't find one myself on Mamba.
    I wish I could live in Kiev for 90 days. Or Just more than a week will give me heavenly like breathing time. Of course, if I can afford that length of time in Kiev, I would approach in a different way.

    Time is the worst constraint and enemy on my end, so I chose the easiest way to fulfill my desire. Wow, if I stay in Kiev for a month, I would definitely try meeting Ukrainedate.com girls. Meet genuine girls and try to go to cafes near colleges.

  7. #18106
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyle  [View Original Post]
    This time... I started from GIA, deviated a little and ended with GIA.
    Excuse my grammar, bad spell and syntax before you start reading below but I want to enliven our forum with my experience.
    sex.
    Thanks for sharing! Really interesting post!

    Just planning to go to Kyiv.

    LOL7.

  8. #18105
    Quote Originally Posted by Riina  [View Original Post]
    Just like I said, ridiculously expensive. Most readers of this forum have a job, we are not ever counting the cost of twelve work weeks lost...
    Not sure, but I believe certain types of University employees have their summers off.

    Saving the whole year, then spending 3 months in Kiev, then back to the grind.

    Would I spend a whole year in Kiev? Yes. Can I? Not yet.

    Braves ones move there permanently.

    Life in Kiev does require strict financial discipline, unless you are an oil magnate from Emirates. Too many temptations and not all of them are cheaper.

  9. #18104
    Quote Originally Posted by Riina  [View Original Post]
    Just like I said, ridiculously expensive. Most readers of this forum have a job, we are not ever counting the cost of twelve work weeks lost. Even just 2-4 weeks in a fringe area of Kiev doesn't sound like fun to me.

    I'm very skeptical of guys saying they grinded their way through agencies. After my years of mongering experience, seems nobody does that and it just doesn't make economic sense. Reminds me of the guys who were supposedly hunting down gems on BP and then could never post a link to a girl.

    If an indie or agency/Mamba girl can't show you four photos, two face close ups and two set back to see her figure all in different settings, just forget it. Before meeting, try to talk to them on your cell. Waste of time to blindly call agencies to meet in front of a coffee shop without some kind of verification.

    What's the chance of an agency with a financial interest to send out any old hog to your place actually delivering something good? Probably about zero these days if I can't find one myself on Mamba.
    After all the above said, one could do Kiev on a very minimum budget like an urban hipster. But that requires a real commitment to Ukraine and you better have the spirit to get yourself out and create relationships. As long as you have the right attitude, you could reap the better mongering possibilities in Kiev with very little money.

  10. #18103
    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoSlider  [View Original Post]
    Didn't catch at first how long you stayed. Over such an extensive period of time it adds up rather quickly, and $8-12 K is a substantial chunk of money. Seems like you had fantastic 90 days in Kiev!
    Just like I said, ridiculously expensive. Most readers of this forum have a job, we are not ever counting the cost of twelve work weeks lost. Even just 2-4 weeks in a fringe area of Kiev doesn't sound like fun to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    What I did last summer is grind my way through agency girls and independents whose quoted price was near $50/ hour (1300 uah), though I sometimes went up to 2000 uah / hour as my patience with unsatisfactory girls wore out, until I finally found a jewel and then I stuck with her from then on, and I hope to see this same jewel twice weekly this summer (planning 90 days in Kiev). That's really the best approach, in my opinion, at least for those looking for a longer-term GFE situation. Like digging through a scrap heap looking for occasional nuggets of gold.
    I'm very skeptical of guys saying they grinded their way through agencies. After my years of mongering experience, seems nobody does that and it just doesn't make economic sense. Reminds me of the guys who were supposedly hunting down gems on BP and then could never post a link to a girl.

    If an indie or agency/Mamba girl can't show you four photos, two face close ups and two set back to see her figure all in different settings, just forget it. Before meeting, try to talk to them on your cell. Waste of time to blindly call agencies to meet in front of a coffee shop without some kind of verification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riina  [View Original Post]
    After years on Mamba, I feel I can spot a semi pros profile. I mess with it every day at home and I can not get a girl 25 or under to reply back to me. It was different just a few years ago.
    What's the chance of an agency with a financial interest to send out any old hog to your place actually delivering something good? Probably about zero these days if I can't find one myself on Mamba.

  11. #18102
    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    ...So total costs over 90 days about $130/ day, not including airfare. Actual checking account deductions less because I took some breaks when I didn't see any girls for a while and also $40/ day living expense probably on high side for me.
    Didn't catch at first how long you stayed. Over such an extensive period of time it adds up rather quickly, and $8-12 K is a substantial chunk of money. Seems like you had fantastic 90 days in Kiev!

  12. #18101
    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    ...Food was about $5/ day (bread, kefir, peanuts, dark chocolate, fresh fruit, occasional sardines). Mostly I walked, with occasional Uklon taxis. Ballet $8 for good seats...

    ...Kiev is still a bargain for some of us.
    This is a perfect example of a gentleman setting realistic goals, keeping the girls happy, and staying content himself, instead of negative bitching left and right about everybody lying, cheating, and Kiev not being the same anymore.

    Walking around is my favorite type of transportation, good for people watching too. Kefir, yogurt or ryazhenka are great for health. I prefer different food. Not saying mine is better, just different. Occasionally I stay home and eat out of the fridge, that BTW is stocked by AirBnb super-host prior to my arrival from KBP (the way Venerable Maestro Coyle arranged). Everything for good salad, olive oil, salo from Bessarabsky, less than $10 for a bottle of decent brut champagne, good Armenian brandy / cognac, red and black caviar, berries that babushkas sell next to subway station.

    What can be better than asking lady of the night to help you in the kitchen, while she is still dressed for few more minutes (or not anymore). It melts the ice, and you have the opportunity to stand behind and guide her hands with your own, while she's smiling in anticipation, opening her neck for light tender kisses and more. And I am not even talking about touching her butt yet, but you could, you surely could.

    For $8/200 UAH a seat there is sufficient privacy at the mezzanine, where no one will object to your being affectionate with much younger beauty (that arrived together), while she is watching the Nutcracker action on stage. I specifically ask my girls to wear silk or similarly thin dress, to make it more satisfying for her while my hands roam around in a respectful yet persistent manner.

    Definitely nothing wrong with Kozerog's approach, even though I myself do not always adhere to those guidelines. Respect!

    In fact the more of us follow his spending habits, the less on average we would waste. There is a good balance between what you spend and what the girl expect from you. Throwing money around doesn't gain much.

  13. #18100
    Quote Originally Posted by DramaFree11  [View Original Post]
    Sorry, I have to completely disagree. I would say minimum budget would be $100-150 and even then be prepared that you will be going to ATM. At the budget you are talking about you will not be able to stay in the center, no strip bars and very difficult to find quality girls. Even with local knowledge almost impossible, sorry.
    I don't want to stay in the center or go to strip bars, thank you very much. Also, $50/ hour is good money in Kiev. More than the GIA girls get on average after taking out the agency cut, so no problem finding top-quality girls who will accept that amount, assuming you bypass the agency, are a repeat customer, have longer meetings (3 hours per meeting in my case), and are not an unpleasant customer.

    We might be talking about different things. I spent about $40/ day for apartment, food, etc in summer 2017. Girl cost varied. Initially, I spent $70/ day or less trying out a new girl daily for an hour each. Once I found a jewel, I saw her repeatedly, 3 times per week for 3 hours at $50/ hour, or again about $70/ day average. So total costs over 90 days about $130/ day, not including airfare. Actual checking account deductions less because I took some breaks when I didn't see any girls for a while and also $40/ day living expense probably on high side for me.

  14. #18099
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyle  [View Original Post]
    This time... I started from GIA, deviated a little and ended with GIA.
    Could you please provide the names of GIA girls you tried with brief performance ratings?

  15. #18098
    Sorry, I have to completely disagree. I would say minimum budget would be $100-150 and even then be prepared that you will be going to ATM. At the budget you are talking about you will not be able to stay in the center, no strip bars and very difficult to find quality girls. Even with local knowledge almost impossible, sorry.

    I do with one of your statements, the Ballet is amazing in Kiev and great option to take girls. This was my number one spot, that is one of the things I miss about Kiev, the other is how easy it is to get around and a safe city.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kozerog  [View Original Post]
    "$200/ day minimum exclusive of lodging, etc, etc" may apply to those who like the high-roller lifestyle, but my experience summer of 2017 was $50/ day was plenty including lodging, food, transportation, ballet in June, my dance / music social activity, etc. Everything but girls. AirBnb apartment was $25/ night / but I paid $20/ night after first week outside of AirBnb in cash (not tax reported). I'll be staying at this same apartment again this summer for $25/ night. I could have negotiated lower, but I like the place and $5/ night is worth it for peace of mind that I won't get a nasty surprise. Food was about $5/ day (bread, kefir, peanuts, dark chocolate, fresh fruit, occasional sardines). Mostly I walked, with occasional Uklon taxis. Ballet $8 for good seats. Social activity dues / expenses about $20/ week.

    My independent jewel was $50/ hour but she gave me a slight discount because I paid 4000 UAH for 3.5 hours. Saw her three times a week, so under $500/ week total..

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